A minor bit of activism I did has raised a few concerns about censorship and political correctness. This is to get some opinions on it.
When is it OK to be offended?
– January 13, 2013 Comments: 21Posted in: Misandry
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http://antimisandry.com/mra-youtubers/when-ok-offended-50102.html#axzz2HuIIGFwW
I made some comments here..
Basically, you did what you felt was right at the time, perhaps it was too easy to get the result?
I wonder if a kid complaining would have got the same result?
I didnt personally find the poster offensive to men though..
It actually, made the person who created it look dumb in my view, because it didnt really make sense in its context and was silly and childish..
Sometimes, folk who say stupid stuff about others, actually say more about themselves than their target!
I think it is fine to demand that these people live up to their own rules, even if said rules are bad ones, indeed especially if said rules are bad ones.
I can see why you’re bothered. You don’t like censorship, and you’re uncomfortable being the agent of censorship. Under ideal conditions, it may have been the wrong thing to do. But we don’t live in an ideal world. In the real world, the rules are different. Various interest groups (especially feminists) use similar tactics (often they do far worse) to achieve whatever goals they have. How do you think that poster got there in the first place? I’m sure that it was incessant feminist complaining about how there is too much encouragement for boys and not enough for girls.
It’s not not even that the ends justify the means. It’s that there are no other means to effectively achieve an end.
Its tough for people like us. We don’t hate the player, we hate the game.
Trying to remove yourself from the game never seems to work; because of the the ideas that are projected onto us if we oppose the viewpoint.
In Canada there is a limitless supply of myths surrounding the Aboriginal population and the politics that exist here. On one side you have people thinking that everything the government dose is an attempt to destroy them and there cultures. The other side seems to think that a disproportionately high number of welfare cheques collected, is some type of excessive payment from one race to another for historical oppression.
Having the discussion pragmatically seems to fail at every turn. People ether run away from the conversation, because there afraid to be called a racist, or they sit there beating there chest with impunity; exploding about there tax dollars, and proclaiming that most of there forefathers were Irish!
You and I may not like censorship, but propaganda and mythology are powerful forces. We don’t like the game, but we must play it. Perhaps our children’s children can move beyond this.
I will happily offer my opinion as a sort of thank-you to you for your work and what you give me through your site. I mean, what have I done for you lately?
I see your point about censorship. Even though it is not common practice, I say put up your own post as a reply to the poster you are offended by. This way nothing is censored and the sexism is pointed out. Also, the kids at school would get the chance to think through the issue as opposed to simply being protected from it. Also, I don’t think it even is censorship when the party in question agrees to take the poster down. They don’t agree with the statement.
As for politically correct speech, I say use the language your audience is comfortable with. It just seems like smart communicating. When you are with your mates, there is no need to use “Correct – Speak.”
As for the activists insisting on also using male names for hurricanes, I assume female names were thought of first because nature is associated with female. The fact that the activists did not insist that “Mother Nature” be changed to “Parent Nature” is not lost on me.
Thanks for your opinion.
There is no genuine poster that exists which uses similar language against women, so I was speaking of a world in which such a thing was possible. I’m in no position in that environment to put anything up anyway.
U did a good thing.
Half the problem of misandry inflicting our society has been that men are too passive about it, as they are more interested in football.
You seem to asking yourself if you did the right thing about acting on being offended rather than ‘being a real man’ and thinking about football.
Thanks for the feedback. Like yours, opinions have been overwhelmingly in favour of action rather than acceptance.
You absolutely did the right thing! Misandry exists because most men have been brainwashed to look the other way, to accept. This is not a natural state for men, it’s the result of years of conditioning with state enforcement. It’s a disgrace to us and our boys. Don’t even begin to second guess yourself until we return to an environment that’s not only remotely fair but shares some resemblance to what could be called sane.
If there’s a poster put up which belittles men, then do the same to women. Problem solved.
If women don’t like it, then say, “You pull your poster down, and I’ll pull mine down.”
The bottom line?
If putting men down is “acceptable” to some in the media (such as TV shows & ads, etc), then do the same to women.
If it’s called ‘sexist’ where any ads belittling women must be axed, then likewise the ads belittling men.
Women: Either cop it back, or shutup.
And to anyone who doesn’t like my comment?: Up yours.
MWM,
In my opinion, YES. It is right to complain. It is right to be offended, and yes, it IS right to join the censorship brigade.
We do not live in a gender-neutral environment. We live in a hostile one. It is NOT an environment that men made, nor did they start this hate campaign. And this hate campaign is directed toward our sons, and it harms our daughters.
Your action will have registered with someone. Perhaps that reaction would have been indignation, or offence. But that offence tells the perpetrators that men will not be silent any longer.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks for this. I agree.
The poster is illustrative of a gigantic problem in western societies.
There was a time when I considered myself a feminist. That was a long time ago, in the 1960s and early ’70s.
As early as 1971 radical feminism had taken control of the Women’s Movement, especially in the US; and, as in just about any case of radical control, the desire for justice and rational conduct within the movement went out the window. 1973, of course, was the terrible watershed year with the passage of Roe vs Wade, which made convenience abortions legal and legitimate. The natural furtherance of this radicalism is misandry, because power demands more power unto itself; and because, as the ancients knew and Tacitus reminded us, “It is human nature to hate a person you have injured.” That hatred is naturally directed primarily toward males (of every age), who are painted as wrong, bad, clumsy, incompetent, childish, self-absorbed, brutish, stupid and controlling women-haters. (It should be noted that much of the propaganda and tactics used by radical feminism are copied from Nazism and Communism.)
Much of the hatred comes about because of a widespread, collective sense of guilt by western women over their failure to protect the unborn children they so casually sacrifice upon the altar of career and “social freedom,” as well as in support of the My Body/My Choice mantra. Legal abortion, they have always claimed, is all about freedom of choice; the truth is that convenience abortions are almost always about the denial of choice: neither the unborn babies nor the fathers have any choice – or even any voice – in the matter. And, to help disguise their guilt, the feminists must continually add fuel to the fire of the “Bad Males” as they increase the volume – in both senses of the word – of invective, accusations and lies.
Feminism is supposed to be about equality; the reality of feminism since the early 1970s shows a hugely different picture: it is about political, social and economic control; and it is about one of the greatest and most egregious cover-ups in recent history.
We should be more than merely offended.
Please keep up the good work.
A very interesting comment. Thank you.
We have to fight this battle with the same tools that have been used against men and boys for the last 40 or so years, so your response was correct and needed, you have done men and boys and humanity a great service in taking on what is a despicable attempt to denigrate men yet again.
I have decided to buy and disseminate as many posters as I can advertising AVFM radio and will also promote your site when possible to all who will at least listen.
Hmmm!
Seems like MRAs will have to start thinking seriously about which strategies are the most effective and stop worrying ourselves into an early grave about ethics.
What you did was immediate, appropriate, effective and deserving of praise.
We can but hope that the ripples from your activism will spread but we can’t count on it. Since you were talking about a ‘poster’ it’s likely that thousands of copies were printed and are stuck on school and college walls up and down the land – and nobody bats an eyelid.
What do we do about all those other copies?
Well, children won’t say anything against those other posters because it would not occur to them to do so.
Women won’t say anything because the message is not directed against them.
Men won’t say anything for the same reason as the children.
Not great.
Education has been the key to getting people to stop doing drugs, not harsher laws. Perhaps creating awareness with education and a little action will work in his case too. This was civil, and people who are honest will see it for what it is and accept it, while the radicals will show their true colors; a good way to separate the unaware or undecided from the radicals, and draw the line.
Again I would think of it as a civil protest, your right and your responsibility, and not as you playing the feminist game. Perhaps they want you to think of it as their strategy so you will be too afraid to do anything but be silent, rather than act.
For the short term, you did the right thing, even what you did doesn’t jive with the entire premise of it. This is because if you are offended by something, my belief is that it’s your problem. For myself, I don’t give anyone the power to offend me. I do what I can to control my own mind.
However, we’re not dealing with people who are rational or virtuous, and they may or may not be thinking in terms of what kind of mindset they are shaping. The fact is that these people who thought there was nothing wrong with putting up a poster that said “The Future is too important to be left up to men” did so because nobody complains. When nobody complains, the propaganda continues. The mindset these people are molding has grown into something grotesque, and if left unchecked it will become something horrific.
How is it possible that atrocities happen? It’s because, basically, we learn to dehumanize someone else. We then take their rights from them. Then we heard them out of our society, into ghettos and into reservations and into concentration camps and gulags, and then we don’t think about them anymore. And it’ll happen because we let the mindset change.
I get what you’re saying. What good is it to fight against these forces?
I attended a hyper-feminized liberal arts college. Still nursing those wounds.
My plan is to make enough money so that I can actively participate and provide guidance for the board of trustees, and try to make sure the feminists at the school don’t drive everything too out of control.
You do what you can.
I think you definately did the right thing and I think it’s great that you did it. I can’t believe that they took it down! I know it had to be a hard thing to do, because I would have looked at it and tolerated it, like most men would have done. So thank you for not tolerating that b.s. and thank you for doing something about it!
People don’t know how to not discriminate. In order to bring one group of people up, they automatically think they have to put another down.