I’m married (shock, horror) and I’ve said so here and here.
A few people have sent me messages in disbelief along the following lines:
- How could you be so stupid as to get married in the West?
- You must have got married before you woke up and became an MRA, right?
- How could your wife be with you considering your stated views?
- You’re an idiot
- You are grossly stupid
- It’s a matter of time until you pay the price
- etc
I’m addressing some of these now, in a Q & A fashion, because I think it’s quite important to look at marriage and what it means today for any man that takes part.
This site sets out the issues very clearly. I myself have set out some of the negative issues for men with marriage here and here.
I personally DO NOT recommend marriage for men in the west. And this is what I’ll be advising my son, too.
Getting down to it
Q: So why did you get married, knowing what you know about the problems of marriage for men?
A: For the simple reason that although technically, I am indeed foolish, in actuality I am living a marriage quite different from the norm.
Q: Yeah, right. How is that, exactly?
A: Because of the characters involved, namely me and her.
Q: What’s so different about you and her?
A: It’s not about “difference”, it’s about “choice”.
I see the powers over men that are granted to women in marriage as being like a menu of options sitting at the table in front of a woman in a restaurant:
- She could divorce me for no reason and guarantee that I would still have to fund her life.
- She could accuse me of domestic violence or the (ridiculous notion) of spousal rape and I would be out of my own house before she’d put the phone down to the police.
- She could divorce me and ensure I never got to see my children again.
- etc, etc
What we have is a situation where she could do any of those things at her whim, almost as easily as she could pick a dessert from a restaurant menu.
The list of options is right there in front of her and the waiter (in the shape of government, the legal industry and the abuse industry) is hovering nearby, ready and eager to take her order.
But she isn’t ordering.
She’s not even looking at the menu.
She has actually covered it with her napkin.
Q: But the menu is still there, right? If you piss her off enough, she could pick up that menu and start ordering with abandon.
A: Yes, she could.
Q: Well, then you’re a fool and maybe worse than that, because at least a fool didn’t know what he was getting into.
A: I don’t agree for these reasons:
I’m a highly unusual person based on those people that I have ever met and known in my life. This project is a case in point. It took me 7 years of my free time with no payment. For less work and stress, I could have earned a PhD or, as one friend put it: “You could have been a vet!”. And look at the subject I picked to spend so much time and effort on. Hardly sensible, by all accounts. As I said, I am an unusual person.
I don’t see the world in the same way as anyone I have ever come across and the judgments and decisions that I make on the basis of my mental model of the world, are often confusing to those around me. What I’m saying is that I am a very contrary person in how I choose to live. I fight the norms of behaviour in many ways out of bloody mindedness and because of the way I choose to see things.
I did not have a happy upbringing with happily married parents to blindly model my future on. I did not look for a woman to “complete me”. I did not make happy assumptions about how things would turn out after marriage. I did not fall wildly in love and sprint to the altar, many years were involved. I do not wear rose-tinted spectacles when looking at the world or examining the natures of women. I have a clarity and certainty of opinion as regards the MRM and the position of men in society that has sometimes startled even those close to me.
Enter marriage
When considering marriage, I went into it with my eyes open.
I was already an MRA with most of my documentary in the can (but mostly unedited).
My wife was instrumental in helping me produce the final product. I would have done it anyway, of course, but it would have taken longer.
She helped with filming; she watched every minute of footage (including the tedious rough cuts when it was over 40 hours long rather then the 15 hours it is now); she helped me to make time for editing and cleared out of the house when I needed silence for recording audio; she brought clippings from newspapers and pointers to news or TV show footage for me to download after I had stopped reading newspapers and watching TV myself.
She is one highly unusual person. Just like me.
Q: What does all this rambling mean?
A: It means that if one chooses to live outside of the parameters that are continually forced upon us, makes an explicit choice (not an unconscious one) to live that way, then that person is not someone who browses a menu looking for something to eat. That person already knows what they want to eat.
I am like that. My wife is like that.
Q: You’re still rambling. Are you saying she’s your “soul mate” or something equally corny? Is she the mythical woman who is “not like that”?
A: Nope. But what I am saying is that my wife is no more likely to become a toxic woman than I am likely to become a Feminist.
The fact is, I could stop work on MRA material, this instant, and become a major supporter of Feminism. I could do it and I could even re-cut some of my existing material and start to produce films to back up my new found Feminist perspective in short order.
What’s to stop me becoming a Feminist? It would be a hell of a lot easier than being an MRA and I’d probably get official funding for any video work I did. I wouldn’t even have to think about pixellating my face in my films due to potential financial consequences and the like. It’d be great.
But it’s not likely is it? It’s not something you could safely bet on.
And why not? Because that’s simply not what I believe and that makes it highly unlikely that I would become a Feminist, even though there’s nothing to stop me doing it and it would be beneficial for me to do it in many ways.
This is how it is for me and my wife in how we see the world.
The options are there for her to royally screw me over. The option is there for me to become a Feminist. Neither will happen.
They could happen, but they won’t. They are encouraged by society to happen, but they won’t. They are rewarded by society, but we are not interested. etc etc
To put it another way, if Tony Soprano had a noisy neighbour, do you think he would call the borough council or the police to sort it out? Is reliance on the law and the state the way that character has chosen to live his life?
Q: Might she become interested in using the powers offered to her by the state, if things sour between you, etc etc?
A: Yes she might. Might I become a Feminist if the MRM pisses me off? Yes, I might. But I wouldn’t bet so much as a penny on it.
Q: But how many men could say the same about the woman in their lives?
A: Not many and that’s why I DO NOT recommend marriage to men as a rule. However, for me, it has worked out because of the precise and unusual natures of myself and her.
As I said at the start, I am still technically in danger of falling foul of her. I am still technically wrong to have got married. But I believe I have side-stepped those risks because of the players involved. I don’t feel I need to guard the basket against a player on my own team even though they might go rogue and dunk over me.
No one can predict the future and there is always risk for men in a game as rigged as marriage, but if things were to go wrong between me and she, the state wouldn’t even know about it. No lawyer would know about it. No family court would have an inkling. The police would have no idea. None of those parasitic agencies would get a look in. We would not be grist for their mill. We would handle it between ourselves and the rest of the family because that’s simply how we choose to interact with the world.
The sad thing is, the corruption of marriage law has made marriage suitable only for those who can form an existence within an existence, a world within a world.
The real world wants to tear apart marriages and reap the spoils in terms of money and power. Marriage can only work now if you are basically a man and woman who refuse to bow to pressure and are not interested in false rewards. Two people who, even if they grew to hate and distrust each other, would always hate and distrust the family court much more.
Q: So why get married at all? Why not just be together and avoid the grasping fingers of the state and Feminist law?
A: Now that’s a different question altogether and is not really the subject of this article. Suffice to say that I have my own definition of marriage and it suits me to be married.
Q: So what about NAWALT? Are you now saying that there are lots of “good” women out there for men to find? Will you be removing it from your glossary?
A: Nope. My views on NAWALT are still in full effect.
I’m not saying that my wife is a woman who is “not like that”, I’m saying that she is not even in the reckoning. She is outside of the game entirely and so I don’t judge her on those terms.
It’s similar to the MGTOW movement or the new paradigm for men:
Question: “Hey, are you an Alpha male or a Beta male?
Answer: “Neither, I’m a Zeta male”
In a strange way, and contrary to popular MRA speak, marriage is perhaps only suitable for those who have taken the red pill, rather than those who haven’t. This applies to men and women. A man needs the red pill to understand what harm could be done to him and why; a woman needs the red pill to understand why she has been granted so much power to harm him and why.
Walking through a minefield with an accurate map of where every mine is placed is not the same as walking through one without even knowing that there are mines present.
In getting married, I have not been hypocritical and I have not taken any risk that I haven’t quantified and analysed with the full rigor with which I apply myself to everything that I do.
The Final Analysis
In my NAWALT definition, I liken the marriage game (and even the dating game) to “playing Russian roulette with a six-shooter loaded with 4 bullets”. However, it’s not the same game when you take a peek at the chambers before pulling the trigger.
Q: Could you be wrong?
A: Hell yes. But I’ve bet my life that I’m not.
Having been married on two occasions in my life, and speaking from experience, in the respect that I’ve tried all the ideas and tricks to try and keep a modern western woman happy.
I can honestly say that whatever you do, they will always want something other than, or different to whatever it is you’re doing. If you’re trying the hairy hunter approach they will soon want mr metro-sexual. And if you’re being mr metro-sexual, then you can expect their loins to soon be craving mr hairy hunter back before too long.
I wouldn’t recommend anyone get married in this day and age, as there’s really nothing in it for the man. And modern western women are so spoiled, they think they are entitled to whatever their hearts desire, and whenever.
No normal, sane human being can keep up with that entitlement attitude, and it’s just not healthy to try to.
I would never try to make a woman happy any more than I’d try to fill up a black hole.
The only thing you can do is try to be happy in yourself and she’s either along for the ride or she isn’t.
Fair point MWM…however the first marriage I was very young and somewhat naive.
On the second attempt I was reasonably confident, as much as you can be, that things were right. It wasn’t to be, as unfortunately she allowed outside influences to interfere.
That’s one thing you can’t control!
Everyone warns me to refrain from talking about MRA matters while in the company of a woman that sparks my interest. My best friend is somewhat of a “purple” pill guy. He gets the MRM, but he doesn’t. He and his wife try to set me up with women sometimes. I do not heed their warnings. The points of the MRM are exactly what I talk about, on the contrary. So far, all the women have disagreed with me or have even been shocked at me and have broken things off.
Luckily this movement has not made me hate women, only feminism and misandry. However, “anti-feminist” is seen as equivalent to “anti-woman” by most people and I try to discern the two very often, but mostly unsuccessfully. I absolutely adore some women but am afraid of their power that they have over me. This truly is a crisis.
“So far, all the women have disagreed with me or have even been shocked at me and have broken things off.”
I think you already owe the MRM a debt of gratitude.
If relevant to the conversation, I will tell any woman about my MRA affiliations, what we stand for and why. If this extinguishes a possible relationship, then it extinguishes it. Otherwise it would only break up sooner rather than later. And all of them break up eventually anyway if you are not willing to be a wage slave and dish-washing assistant. Or if you enjoy meetings with male friends without women present.
I actually don’t believe women make natural feminists. But I’m afraid the media, our politics and general culture have brainwashed AND spoiled them. Women have become feministically orientated without giving anything too much thought.
So many MRA websites advise men to stay away from women. And I think most of us here will agree.
Leave women to today’s mangina mugs who are diminished rather than enhanced by their balls.
Oh, absolutely ManWomanMyth. I am forever grateful for your work. It has really changed my life forever. Thank you, sir!
@BrusselsLout Most MRA sites, indeed, advise men to avoid women. I am still a believer in NAWALT, which makes me an unusual MRA. There are some virtuous women out there who actually do agree with our mission and our values. Some even make MRA videos on YouTube. Look up ChristiOMisty; she is totally supportive!
MWM has had luck in finding a woman who obviously sees through the feminist poison, for which I salute him. I think there is hope for each of us. I am going to find a woman who is an MRA to marry. Perhaps the two of us can go around to colleges and places and speak about misandry and feminism. The feminists will not break my spirit and make me feel as if finding a good woman is hopeless. I will not allow them to. I think that when MRAs and MGTOW isolate themselves from all women, they are letting the feminists win. This is just my humble opinion.
@EscapePlan
I know! There are good women out there. And I am absolutely delighted MWM has found a great one. (I could tell from his earlier vids that he had. It showed through.)
And this is all the more fantastic because it’s that much harder to find a decent woman in the UK. I don’t know ANY. I’ve had a number of girlfriends in the UK but I would not like to rekindle any relationship with any of them.
Compare this to out here. I live in Luxembourg (just about; I am soon to move to Germany). There are many French, Belgian, German and even a few (ha ha) Luxebourgish women out here.
I don’t what is about women back home in the UK. But here, they really do appreciate men and masculinity far more. They seem to have a deeper and more mature understanding of us. Conversing with them can actually be a pleasure. (Get a load of that.)
I make occasional visits to the UK. Eye-contact with a British woman often provokes a faked irritation followed by an arrogant hardened expression that’s obviously intended as a put-down. That’s her understanding of femininity.
Women on buses in the UK see an empty seat next to mine but choose one further away next to a woman. Here, French women see an unoccupied one near where they entered, but they choose to walk further to sit next to me. (I kid you not.)
It is entirely cultural. That’s why I say in my piece above that I don’t believe women are natural feminists. They’re NOT. Even British women are not. They are just brainwashed into it.
But I do appreciate it’s hard for guys to avoid women. If I was under 50 I would find it hard too.
However it may take some discipline. The law is now a bitch’s charter. If you want your life to be your own, you’d better be sure you’re as lucky as MWM, or you will soon lose it to the corrupt system.
Your story is much appreciated Mr. Manwomanmyth. She sounds good. I have known one like her. Blessings.
Much appreciated.
Meh, I can appreciate your desire to straighten some things out with folks pestering that said I would simply state that “I am a man, I make my own decisions and will live with the consequences whatever they may be.” For that matter considering that anyone with half a brain knows men are the only ones in the western world who do have to live with the consequences of their own actions you could have simply stated “I am a man” lol.
Well, I could have said something like: “Marriage? Works for me”, but it wouldn’t make the point I wanted to make. The point is that marriage is dangerous unless you know how. Tightrope walking across the Grand Canyon is dangerous, unless you know how. And the greater point? Even when you know how, it’s still dangerous.
BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN
Why American men should boycott American women
http://boycottamericanwomen.blogspot.com
I am an American man, and I have decided to boycott American women. In a nutshell, American women are the most likely to cheat on you, to divorce you, to get fat, to steal half of your money in the divorce courts, don’t know how to cook or clean, don’t want to have children, etc. Therefore, what intelligent man would want to get involved with American women?
American women are generally immature, selfish, extremely arrogant and self-centered, mentally unstable, irresponsible, and highly unchaste. The behavior of most American women is utterly disgusting, to say the least.
This blog is my attempt to explain why I feel American women are inferior to foreign women (non-American women), and why American men should boycott American women, and date/marry only foreign (non-American) women.
BOYCOTT AMERICAN WOMEN!
I myself think marriage is still possible for some, but they are literally the extreme exception and I know for a fact that simply saying “‘I’ (any male) am the exception that will somehow get a fairytale ending despite the odds”, will instead backfire horribly.
Today, legal marriage is simply a financial union between two people. That’s it. Nothing spiritual or loving about it. It’s the equal of business partners except on a more personal and risky level. The name of “marriage” legally is as much an absolute lie as the term “free” is in advertisements. Again, “financial union” is the real name, do not be fooled into thinking it gives happiness by default or that it’s supposed to somehow fulfill you.
“Marriage” should never have even been in governmental standing. After all, what right do governments have to meddle in how people define our relationships? Why do we need them to know we are fulfilled in someone else?
What was that in separation of church and state too? Because marriage, at least as I know it, was started as a religious institution in several religions. It had nothing to do with nations’ own inner laws in itself. They only intertwined because nations and religion melded together more easily than today.
As for myself, marriage (the real kind) has literally nothing to give me anyway. Today, the only (practical and usable) reason for marriage now is to raise children with two parents. That’s it, it makes raising kids a lot easier (if you’re lucky that the wife doesn’t use it against you). Nothing else though. If I had my way, I’d just raise the children with me and someone else but the government says that it’s illegal if your not “married” to the person.
And today’s world anyway, with all it’s risks, I would say single parenthood is the most practical despite how horrible it is for both the parent and the child, simply because “family” today doesn’t exist. It’s an empty word now (in the legal sense) that we can cut at any time through abortions, giving up children into foster care and cutting financial ties.
I don’t even know why we are even automatically titled as “parents” through an invisible legal contract of responsibility (which I would name “parenthood”) when a child is born. It’s totally meaningless. Today we are now simply adults that happen to raise children for whatever reason. We can cut all ties if want to at any time, just like with the causal friends that we welcome over once in a while. If we learn something we don’t like about them, we can simply cut off contact.
The only difference with legal marriage in contrast to legal parenthood (without a partner) is that women are null and void of any consequences to what she does to her husband. Parents however are not void of them if they hurt the children (although it is lessened considerably if it’s a woman).
Besides, we don’t even need women or marriage anymore for getting and raising of our children. We have millions in foster care to choose from, thanks to all the mothers that abandoned them or failed to abort them! Haha, it’s even like a supermarket when you can choose which brand, what race, gender, and age they are, etc…. No more having to wait 8 1/2 months with a person in extreme pain that could also kill you at any time and just get a pat on the back like nothing!
You think I’m evil by saying this? LOL, well get used to it, because this is the norm today! I’ll even give a quiz question. Guess which gender get’s picked more often?! The other gender could die for all they care, they don’t matter.
Any legal standing in relationship to any person, in business, family, marriage, children, etc. is seriously so fucked up today it makes me cry literally. It’s that bad.
congrats and good luck. (hopefully you won’t need the latter
)
Interesting.. I have been married 3 times.. It never did me any harm.. on balance that is, speaking relatively of course.. I cant really see myself doing it again though, but I’d never rule it out..
I think the “marraige strike” promoted by the MRM is pretty dumb..
I have a similar view of the “child strike”..
To paraphrase the words of a great MRA I have spoken with on several matters..
“They are NOT taking these good things off us!! Don’t give them that victory”..
There are far more stupid things that men do than get married, one of them being to co-habit in a home they both pay a mortgage for, if they are not even that confident that “she is not like the others” that they would risk the vows for..
Cutting your own balls off is never a valid strategy for keeping your masculinity intact.. It is merely a fear response..
From my experience with Ukrainian and formal Soviet women, they are the worst when it comes to take advantage of men. They see men as a money sign and a ticket to live outside their countries. They know more court laws and immigration laws in the western countries than native people and sure to pull the trigger on men at their timing. So, my advice is to steer completely away from such women. The trouble for western men is because they are fed-up with the western feminists, they are easy to fall victims to east European women thinking they are traditionalist. So, be more careful with these women, because they all take acting and modeling classes and excel at real-life acting. Most of these women grew-up without fathers or claim their mothers are widows.
On the other hand, I have been living alone without dating or attempting to date any woman no matter what and loving my life. For the first time I experienced security, respect and freedom. Marriage brought me miseries, slavery and damage to my children. It took me sufferings to finally understand reality.